Yeah, he's gonna take his horse to the old town road...
Sets [ELD] Throne of Eldraine
- Thread starter Onderzeeboot
- Start date
Yeah, he's gonna take his horse to the old town road...
Not sure how often the first ability matters, but that second ability... looks decent in an environment with plenty of equipment.
I'm super intrigued by this card as well! Ever since deciding to try and make Stoneforge Mystic work (and in my current environment my playgroup consider that a success) I've been interested in "equipment matters" cards. At the moment there are 194 knights in WR at scryfall, so there's gotta be a way to get the incidental tribal work.
Just take care 
If you are one of those people that like new shiny cards every expansion you will probably be pretty sad for your Knight tribal over the coming expansions. Typically Wizards would stop or almost stop printing good Knights for a time being after a set where Knights have been pushed. We have had pretty many Knights over the last few expansions to go in hand with the Eldraine ones and you might see one or two within the next year but then they are like Kor, Aetherborn, Pirate, Kithkin, Dinosaur, Vedalken etc. for some time.
If you are one of those people that like new shiny cards every expansion you will probably be pretty sad for your Knight tribal over the coming expansions. Typically Wizards would stop or almost stop printing good Knights for a time being after a set where Knights have been pushed. We have had pretty many Knights over the last few expansions to go in hand with the Eldraine ones and you might see one or two within the next year but then they are like Kor, Aetherborn, Pirate, Kithkin, Dinosaur, Vedalken etc. for some time.
Oh man! These one drops are sweet! Legitimate aggro artifact one drops!
Maaaan this card is cool. But is it strong?
I mean, Raging Goblin isn't even close to be good enough as a 1-drop by itself. Bomat Courier has not been great tbh as well. This guy's ability is basically '
: unblockable' but needing an activation cost is something to keep in mind when you ideally want to curve out elegantly in you aggro deck. The last ability is nice to have for the life gain aggro deck in
, but I am definitely not going to replace Vault Skirge with him. Multiple small life gain triggers are much more important for a deck with Ajani's Pridemate and Malakir Familiar.Are two colorless aggro-one-drops too many at 450?
While the card is funny, I don't think it's very good. Like ravnic says, it's just a Raging Goblin. I would rather double on Vault Skirge or the like.
Just take care
Noted! I think this kind of tribal effect doesn't need that many other knights since it's just a bonus, and the equipment focus is probably the most important part of the card, but fair point.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Maaaan this card is cool. But is it strong?
I mean, Raging Goblin isn't even close to be good enough as a 1-drop by itself. Bomat Courier has not been great tbh as well. This guy's ability is basically '
The last ability is nice to have for the life gain aggro deck in
Are two colorless aggro-one-drops too many at 450?
I don't think it's necessarily strong, but I don't think comparing it to Raging Goblin is right. Sure, it's a 1/1 with haste for 1 mana, but... 1) there is a real difference between a mana cost of
and a mana cost of ; 2) it is conditionally evasive, so in the mid to late game, when Raging Goblin becomes useless, Gingerbrute can actually keep attacking, giving the aggro deck a bit of reach (or a lot of reach in combination with buffs); 3) the life gain may not often be relevant, but it is an additional ability nonetheless; and 4) it's an artifact, which opens up synergies that Raging Goblin doesn't have in my cube. Like the adventure cards, it's the fact that it's a package of small upgrades over Raging Goblin that makes this, I think, playable.
Now this is interesting. Probably too low powered, but if you support devotion and aristocrats this guy might be worth a look.
I don't think it's necessarily strong, but I don't think comparing it to Raging Goblin is right. Sure, it's a 1/1 with haste for 1 mana, but... 1) there is a real difference between a mana cost of
Excellent arguments!
Now compare it to Vault Skirge please.
He ran by me, turned into a Sta-ag.
It was Oko, wearing his dra-ag.
The king almost got killed by a hunt.
His kids saved him, 'cause their not runts.
Eldraine Sun something's begun but oh oh Eldraine knights.
Yeah but unlike most of the types you've just named, there have been Knight Tribal cards since the late 1990s. Aetherborn, as an example, didn't even exist until 2016. Many of these other tribes didn't have any worthwhile members until their debut tribal set. Like, with Kor, the best thing you would have had until Zendikar was maybe Looter Il-Kor, and Dinosaurs had, like Deathmist Raptor until Ixalan.Just take care
Meanwhile, Knights have been on almost every world and there's a huge backlog of playable knights outside of knight tribal sets. Knight of the Reliquary, as an example, is super powerful across many formats, even being the key piece of a combo deck using Retreat to Coralhelm. White Knight and Co. used to be cube staples at almost every power level before creatures got so powerful in the late 2000s and early 2010s. I think some power cubes were even running White Knight as late as 2013.
In addition, many of the Knight tribal enablers are just good cards by themselves. History of Benalia immediately comes to mind, but there are also cards like Haakon, Stromgald Scourge and to a lesser extent Aryel, Knight of Windgrace.
Essentially, even though these Knights may be Shiny and New, the Tribe is as old as the game itself and already had a bunch of cubable pieces to it's name. Now, I'm not sure this red 1 drop guy is any good, but some of the other stuff might be.
You are right about a potential lack of coming knights for the time being, though. Theros probably won't have any, as the original block did not.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Ah, Vault Skirge, a card I've just added to my new cube!
Vault Skirge versus Gingerbrute, FIGHT!
Casting Cost: Vault Skirge is more expensive, whichever way you look at it, even though 2 life is not usually a big cost for aggro decks. You want to win before that 2 life matters. Still, advantage Gingerbrute!
Damage Output: Gingerbrute has haste, meaning it deals damage faster than Vault Skirge. Advantage Gingerbrute!
Lifegain: Vault Skirge typically starts you off with 2 life loss. It needs to connect 5 times (unbuffed) to level with the fixed 3 life Gingerbrute grants. It also needs to connect, whereas Gingerbrute can be immediately sacrificed (thanks to haste) if those 3 life are important. On the other hand, lifelink is an excellent keyword, that benefits greatly from creature buffs, and if you run a lifegain matters theme, the steady trickle of lifegain triggers Vault Skirge are more useful than the single life swing Gingerbrute provides. Advantage Vault Skirge!
Evasion: Flying is way more common than haste in most cubes, by at least a factor 2. Even though the evasion on Vault Skirge is free, Gingerbrute has a higher chance of pushing through the final points of damage. Advantage Gingerbrute!
Creature Type: Both Golem and Food (as of Eldraine, though I don't know how relevant that will be in our cubes) are more relevant creature types than Imp. Even if you don't include any food matters cards, Food is still a cooler creature type than Imp, and that's a fact! Advantage Gingerbrute!
Artwork: Gingerbrute's background is far more detailed than that of Vault Skirge. In addition, while Vault Skirge tries to show a nasty, little bug with slavering mandibles, the unhinged smile on Gingerbrute is fare more unsettling. Advantage Gingerbrute!
Flavor text: Gingerbrute features either a lame dud or a chuckleworthy pun, depending on your mood and sense of humor. At leasts it evokes some emotion, even if it's only a roll_eyes. Vault Skirge's flavor text is lame and doesn't even make sense. Remnants from the dead? Oh! So it's a zombie or a golem? Nope. Just an insect. Oh... So... Safeguard his throne, eh? I bet it's a fearsome creature then! Actually, no, it's just a 1/1. Oh... Oh, right. Well, at least they come in a swarm, right? Probably gets stronger in multiples. No, not really, not more than other non-swarm creatures anyway. Riiight... Advantage Gingerbrute!
I think it's clear who wins here!
Garbage. Damn it. Now I'm hoping that even one of the black ones is passable. A few days ago, I thought I might get four...
"Sound Intrusion" B
Sorcery
Target opponent reveals his or her hand. You may choose a nonland card from your opponent's hand. If you do, your opponent exiles that card. If a nonblack card was exiled this way, exile a card from your hand.
I'm actually not in the market for an improved Thoughtseize. I think 1cmc targeted discard is really unfun because it forces a super mulligan.
Couple big misses for the black cube so far today.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Yo it's an artifact!?! This could be cool
Much easier to kill granted, but I don't have an enchantment theme in my cube
Jesus sideboard cards in modern
Yo it's an artifact!?! This could be cool
Much easier to kill granted, but I don't have an enchantment theme in my cube
I love this.
Finks are back, by the way!
TrainmasterGT you must understand and accept that I do not write everything of importance every time I post a comment on this site. There is simply not enough time in my life to dedicate hours into every detail of a conversation like this. Not when I have an adult life with marriage and a business to attend.
The important part to take away and remember is not that Knights have existed sine Alpha. It is more that Knights will probably (not 100 % certain of course) not be supported as a tribal theme over the next few years with very, very few exceptions. This is something we have learned from Wizards for many, many years and we need to learn from history or be doomed to repeat our mistakes. More or less
Ondezeeboot I don’t think you came to the right conclusions in the Fight Club about Skirge and Ginger. I almost cannot imagine a cube where Skirge will not deal more damage over the course of the game than Gingerman. Skirge will also trigger life several times, will not need to be sacrificed to gain life, will not need to pay mana to become evasive, will not need to pay mana to gain life and does not have the option to be a 2-drop. And it doesn’t get affected as strongly by equipments. Ginger only wins from a flavor and art perspective.
The important part to take away and remember is not that Knights have existed sine Alpha. It is more that Knights will probably (not 100 % certain of course) not be supported as a tribal theme over the next few years with very, very few exceptions. This is something we have learned from Wizards for many, many years and we need to learn from history or be doomed to repeat our mistakes. More or less
Ondezeeboot I don’t think you came to the right conclusions in the Fight Club about Skirge and Ginger. I almost cannot imagine a cube where Skirge will not deal more damage over the course of the game than Gingerman. Skirge will also trigger life several times, will not need to be sacrificed to gain life, will not need to pay mana to become evasive, will not need to pay mana to gain life and does not have the option to be a 2-drop. And it doesn’t get affected as strongly by equipments. Ginger only wins from a flavor and art perspective.
I am in love with this card.
For any of you who don’t know. I have a main cube and a secondary cube. My secondary cube is a Rogue-like experience for the three players and they all begin with (more or less) the same basic deck. I was looking for a red card that could be both be a spell for Prowess, discard cards for Madness and hopefully have a beautiful artwork while being an adventure. Also I needed it to be low power since the basic starter deck is super low power. This card is perfect and even better than I could imagine because it scores on all parameters.
For any of you who don’t know. I have a main cube and a secondary cube. My secondary cube is a Rogue-like experience for the three players and they all begin with (more or less) the same basic deck. I was looking for a red card that could be both be a spell for Prowess, discard cards for Madness and hopefully have a beautiful artwork while being an adventure. Also I needed it to be low power since the basic starter deck is super low power. This card is perfect and even better than I could imagine because it scores on all parameters.
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Fixed black phantom, and a 4/4 for 3 that must attack? Solid
I'm a big fan of this card's flexibility. It's almost as good as Faithless Looting in some regards, and it's actually better in others. Unfortunately, I'm not sure this card is powerful enough for me. The body is super weak despite the fact that the Adventure spell is pretty good. I guess it's kind of a 1-mana instant speed Tormenting Voice, which isn't actually that bad now that I think about it. Voice could even be the cut for this.
I don't know, just spitballing ideas. I do love the Ugin tormenting voice art.
Fixed black phantom, and a 4/4 for 3 that must attack? Solid
I'd like this more if it were a zombie. I'm gonna have to pass on this for now.
Fixed black phantom, and a 4/4 for 3 that must attack? Solid
Prevent damage and continually change stats is a headache. Even as a black cube, I'm not too hot on this. That said, I may need a few more knights if I go that route. Anyone care to convince me that I want this?
Chris Taylor
Contributor
Well, it's strong. There's a reason it has to attack each turn, phantoms (See Phantom Centaur for the constructed one) are notoriously hard to deal with, especially since old centaur had pro black, cleverly sidestepping most of the easy ways to deal with it. Being able to block with a creature like this would be a pain.
Think of it kinda like damage only persist, but for each counter that it has. So this thing can "die" 4 whole times.
I haven't taken the closest look at your cube, but unless all the removal is a hard stop or -X/-X AND over pronounced, this thing can carry its weight.
It looks it came straight out of Dark Souls. The art is great. I rest my case.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Hey, they previewed another decent-ish quadbrid!
I'm beginning to believe they are making all the playable ones nonblack just to spite you.
Also, here is a common that's approximately 327% easier to cast!
Luckily it's worse... Oh, wait. No, that's definitely more playable than Thunderous Snapper!
They are really missing the mark on these quadbrids. Horribly underpowered.
Onderzeeboot
Ecstatic Orb
Oh right, devotion. Huh. Wonder if they're good enough in even that, but that probably did have some consequences.
Also, while I obviously was wilfully biased in my comparison, I do actually think that the evasion on Gingerbrute is better. On later turns you often have mana to spare, and Gingerbrute is absolutely better at pushing damage through than Vault Skirge, at least in my cube. I run a high number of flyers, resulting in about a 4:1 ratio when comparing flying to haste. Vault Skirge often gets stonewalled in situations where Gingerbrute would be able to connect. For an aggro one drop, that's a very valuable trait that should not be underestimated. In addition, I have no lifegain matters cards in the cube, so the avantage of multiple life gain triggers is irrelevant in my environment. I don't believe I should cut Vault Skirge, but I absolutely 100% believe Gingerbrute can be a valuable aggro addition to the cube alongside the Skirge.