Stuffed Bear
An artifact to recur, a creature that avoids Wraths, attacks for 4 and impresses guests in your living room.
Augur of Autumn
This looks like a worse Courser of Kruphix (1 less toughness, no lifegain), but maybe that's a good thing if you're trying to encourage aggro strategies?
Also, I like the fact that you don't have to reveal the top card of your library to your opponents.
Eloise is definitely a very sweet and synergy driven card, however that 5 mana value is so much. If I weren't so hellbent on avoiding expensive cards that do nothing on ETB, I would play this. Might be time to build a slower cube...
The specialist I am not 100% sure on. If it had trample or some sort of evasion, then maybe. But as is, giving a resource to each opponent seems risky!
I don't like the bear (sorry)! I would rather play Guardion Idol or Ebony Fly that can serve as a mana rock and have relevance as a creature. The fly looks really good too as a way of jumping another creature.
Now for Augur, you make a very valid point about Courser messing with aggro. I had considered it from a combo standpoint with Fastbond where the life gain is invaluable. However, Coven isn't very complicated and the upside here is huge. Probably worth it.
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Now on a different note, let me run a scenario by you folks:
I cannot find Boros cards that I want to play to save my life. The closest is Nahiri, the Harbinger, but I'm not a big fan. Red and White already have a ton of things going on at that slot.
How about I instead add some 3+ color cards to at least have some representation of the guild (not necessarily all 3 mind you).
Kykar is great as an overall spells anchor, and like Monastery Mentor and Saheeli cares about any noncreature spell. Currently my jeskai slot of choice.
Breya being 4 colors feels a bit awkward for most cube environments, and you do already run Omnath as a 4C with boros colors in it. I would hesitate to call any 4 color card "boros" though.
Minsc and Boo are great fun in EDH.
Something like showdown of the skalds doesn't interest you in the Boros slot directly? Card advantage and permanent board pumping both feel like good things in a multiplayer environment that Boros often doesn't get access to.
Something like showdown of the skalds doesn't interest you in the Boros slot directly? Card advantage and permanent board pumping both feel like good things in a multiplayer environment that Boros often doesn't get access to.
Showdown is great and in the cube, as is Figure of Destiny. I was saying that past those two, I don't like the options much.
Glad to hear Kykar does work, I like the look of that card. The evasive flyers are sure to push through damage. The non-creature part kind of makes this an artifact card as well meaning that Breya doesn't need to be included.
So a little different post, here is a wish list of cards that I would like for my cube. I've been reading other threads where people are starting to prioritize replacing cards only if they fill a void in the cube's design and I think that is a great idea. It also helps narrow down the amount of new cards in the cube for less enfranchised players.
I know that White has a bunch of recursion effects (Reveillark, Sun Titan and Elspeth Conquers Death which I play) but they are expensive for the decks I want them in. Mostly RW and GW aggro/midrange, especially in a Lurrus of the Dream-Den deck. So 2 CMC or less permanent or a spell. I am not worried about BW decks as Reanimate and Unearth do the work there.
Blue:
A lands payoff. This is a recurring demand, but it plays so well. Cosima, God of Voyage could have been it, were it not so wordy and complex and dual-sided.
Black:
Recursive low drops that can block! I would love to have Gravecrawler or Bloodsoaked Champion in the cube, but the fact that they can't block makes them lose a lot of value in MP decks. Maybe that would create more harm than good with board stalls, but I would like to have the option to experiment.
An artifact payoff. I cut Marionette Master for being a vulnerable 6 drop even if it has done some work in the past. I also cut Bolas' Citadel on account of it being difficult to preserve your life total to really go off. Something as to make Black an enticing option on it's own merits (Baleful Strix and Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast are already amazing).
A lands payoff. The Gitrog Monster is currently the only real payoff in Black and a card that could slot into the lands deck would be awesome. Ideally with an ability to sacrifice a permanent so as to widen it's appeal to aristocrats decks (like Korvold, Fae-Cursed King).
Red:
A storm win condition. Right now, I have Professor Onyx, The Locust God and Thassa's Oracle as my more explosive win conditions. I would love to have something similar in Red. Maybe I am overthinking it and I should just play Guttersnipe and Firebrand Archer, but those feel a little too narrow and fragile.
A treasure ritual. Something like Strike it Rich, but with a little more "oomph".
A lands payoff. Not sure what I am looking for, but something along the lines of Hammer of Purphoros, which ties a few themes together, but better. Had Tireless Provisionner been Red, it would have solved both the treasure ritual and lands payoff nicely.
A playable Threaten effect that isn't Zealous Conscripts. Would be an instant/sorcery ideally to play nicely with sacrifice, blink and spells.
Green:
?
Boros:
A 1 or 2 mana value creature to make you want to go into an aggressive deck. Or maybe a cheap token payoff/enabler. I would also take a spells matter card in that casting cost range.
That's all I can think of for now. There are most certainly others, but these are the most pressing needs.
There is Dread Wanderer, which is decent, but does still block "slowly". Agree that in general this is a big hole in WotC's offerings. I guess they are afraid of recursive blocking, but why tho.
There is Dread Wanderer, which is decent, but does still block "slowly". Agree that in general this is a big hole in WotC's offerings. I guess they are afraid of recursive blocking, but why tho.
My cube is currently at 420 cards and I am thinking of going back to 450 cards. The exercise of cutting down has been a great help in letting me understand what I want to support and how. I'm looking for more cheap mana value cards as well as extra support for a few archetypes.
Here are the definite ones I want:
Mikaeus, the Lunarch is an anthem + scalable threat in an aggressive color that supports tokens. Great! Esper Sentinel comes down early and is a way to disrupt opponents or draw. Syndic of Tithes has played well in the past in both aggro and control. The reach and life gain are surprisingly relevant.
Dusk Legion Zealot is a creature cantrip that works well at smoothing draws, but is also fodder in the sacrifice color and abusable with Lurrus. Bone Shards is a cheap removal spell that can serve as an enabler in some decks. Not all decks are willing to pay the price, so it will usually end up to the drafter who wants it I hope.
Dreadhorde Arcanist does everything I want for a 2 drop. It incentives attacks, it gives card advantage and has a synergy potential with pump spells. Angeris a free haste enabler which is immensely powerful. With so many looting effects, I think it will shine here.
Duskwatch Recruiter is a mana sink that attacks well. Maybe this should be Ranger Class or some other cheap mana sink, but my drafters know and love the card, so no reason to change it IMO.
The creature lands are there as a way to fit more threats into decks without taking a spell slot.
So that is 12 cards that are going to play really well in my environment (at least I hope)! I'll post the rest of the candidates later, as I have to go for now.
I'd love to hear any thoughts.
Here it gets a little more dicey. There are 4 storm support cards, 2 of which are pushing the power band way up.
Even without the fastest mana, Tolarian Academy is no joke. However, it's not free to run as it requires some deckbuilding concessions to really maximize. Those are the types of cards I want to be powerful in my cube like Fastbond or Earthcraft. Could be wrong to include it, but it seems to fill my design goals and supported archetypes.
Then there is Grim Monolith which is a ritual of sorts. What encourages me to add the mana rock is two fold. First of all, I don't have too many bonkers 6 drops to cast on turn 3. Gyruda, Doom of Depths, Primeval Titan, Elspeth, Sun's Champion are among the best. Second, in multiplayer, there is a real cost to using a card to get a tempo boost. Should your card get answered, you could be in trouble. This is actually the point that is more of a concern for me, I don't want to trap my drafters. However, I also have to trust them to know how to build their decks.
Bolas's Citadel is an amazing engine that goes with artifacts, storm and sacrifice. I think my environment is too punishing for this to really work, but it's one of my favorite cards of all time, so screw it. We'll see how it goes.
Lastly, Dark Petition is a tutor that sets up your plays nicely. The fact that it is 5 mana, means it is less likely to be picked up by a random drafter (compared to Demonic Tutor), but can be just as effective as getting 2 spells later in the game is trivial.
Gamble is another tutor that incentives you to grab a GY related card or if you are brave, any card. It's another 1 drop spell for Dreadhorde Arcanist too.
Bedlam Reveler cares about spell velocity and the GY and gives Red more card advantage options.
Traverse the Ulvenwald is one I am less confident about. The worse case scenario is a card that cycles for a land, but the upside of having a one mana tutor late game is huge. This also ups the density of 1 mana spells for Arcanist once again and gives you a reason to go into artifacts with Green.
So that is an additional 7 cards, for a total of 19. I am missing 11 slots and I would like some outside input. Here are some I am considering:
So I decided to add Field of the Dead as a one card archetype that plays well as both a control finisher and a lands payoff.
I am still missing 10 cards. I cannot figure out if I am supposed to add an extra archetype, reinforce existing ones or just add some good stuff effects like interaction, cantrips and cheap mana value cards.
Looking at the analysis tab in CubeCobra, I realize that I may be short a few creatures (41.59% total in the cube), so more of those would be good.
Do any of you have good suggestions for a compact archetype that could fit here?
Honestly, I would just add some cool creatures that fit with what you got here, trying to get closer to 50% creatures (have you counted your token producers?)
Some ideas
Not sure if the last is powerful enough, but those are all fun cards. I listed Abiding Grace because it actually is a one card archetype that slots easily into most cubes.
That's exactly where I was headed actually. For now, these will be flex slots that I can use for new sets release.
I think I am looking for even cheaper creatures than the ones you suggested, here are some I am considering
Now on a different note, let me run a scenario by you folks:
I cannot find Boros cards that I want to play to save my life. The closest is Nahiri, the Harbinger, but I'm not a big fan. Red and White already have a ton of things going on at that slot.
How about I instead add some 3+ color cards to at least have some representation of the guild (not necessarily all 3 mind you).
I like this idea. If you go this route, General Ferrous Rokiric would be a great inclusion because he actively encourages players to use multicolor spells. Turning Boros into the anchor colors for multicolor tempo strategies using Rokiric is something many designers have had success with lately, and it might be an interesting angle to consider for your Cube as well.
Do you have any feedback on how Rokiric plays? I have next to no multicolored removal so he scares me as an untouchable token producer (baring a wrath).
Also, to follow up on the post you quoted, Kykar has been slotting really well into the cube and helps guide the drafter into a Jeskai spells matter/prowess deck.
Do you have any feedback on how Rokiric plays? I have next to no multicolored removal so he scares me as an untouchable token producer (baring a wrath).
I personally don't use Rokiric, I don't quite think my gold density is high enough for him to be as consistent as I would like given the competitive nature of Boros slots. I don't think hexproof from monocolor is something to worry about in a multiplayer environment even if you are low on gold removal. Any issues that might arise from Rokiric's ability to dodge monocolor removal should be balanced out by the fact that there are multiple opponents instead of one. Also note that Rokiric is a bit of a fragile creature, so in the event of a board stall he's more of a token factory enchantment than a threat in his own right.
So I decided to add Field of the Dead as a one card archetype that plays well as both a control finisher and a lands payoff.
I am still missing 10 cards. I cannot figure out if I am supposed to add an extra archetype, reinforce existing ones or just add some good stuff effects like interaction, cantrips and cheap mana value cards.
Looking at the analysis tab in CubeCobra, I realize that I may be short a few creatures (41.59% total in the cube), so more of those would be good.
Do any of you have good suggestions for a compact archetype that could fit here?
This archetype is not very invasive as most of the cards are servicable even if you don't end up 5 Color deck. Cascading Cataracts in the cube should always wheel if you want to jump into the archetype. The archetype needs room to breathe and a 5/5 for should be serviceable in your format.
Nice suggestion, thank you! This goes well with what TrainmasterGT was suggesting with General Ferrous Rokiric.
I'll say it outright, I am not keen on the Monstrosity and Cataracts. They are a bit too narrow (basically only the 5c deck wants them) and I am not convinced the payoff is enough at my power level.
However, your other suggestions are hitting the mark. If Boros is a multicolor anchor, then both converge removal spells you posted are a great way to further guide drafters.
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I could see the following shell for a 5 color, Boros based deck in my cube:
Even without the 5c stuff, Golos fetches important lands, is an artifact and has an ETB. Great card in multiple decks, easy choice.
Kenrith plays nicely in any deck that has White and provides fun politic tools if you want to take advantage of them.
Niv-Mizzet is a huge beater that can draw a ton of cards, but also distorts the draft a little (a lot?). "Stealing" guild cards from players in that color isn't great, but the card quality in individual colors is high enough that it won't train wreck anybody. Maybe it isn't even needed as it steals the thunder from Boros (plus it's not exactly sneaky!).
Finally, in Boros, while Rokiric is narrow (only fits in the 3+ color deck), the removal spells are universally playable. The Red burn spell is a little under the power band sadly, but maybe the flashback makes up for it?
Bring to Light is in the wrong colors for what I am planning and not sure it has it's place outside of the 4+ color deck.
I know Crawler is good, as I've played it before in my cube, but I would want to support +1/+1 counters before adding it back in.
Draco is an undercosted beater, but narrow in its homes.
Kavu is a great beater that I often consider just on rate, but the wordiness of the card scares me (i.e my drafters won't read it).
Finally Flames is a sweeper which I think I have enough of. I could see it replacing Slagstorm though, but I like that sometimes it gets played to end games.
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Thank you everyone for the input, it really helps unlock information which I may never have gotten access to. Thoughts on this compact 5 color archetype?
Nice suggestion, thank you! This goes well with what TrainmasterGT was suggesting with General Ferrous Rokiric.
I'll say it outright, I am not keen on the Monstrosity and Cataracts. They are a bit too narrow (basically only the 5c deck wants them) and I am not convinced the payoff is enough at my power level.
However, your other suggestions are hitting the mark. If Boros is a multicolor anchor, then both converge removal spells you posted are a great way to further guide drafters.
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I could see the following shell for a 5 color, Boros based deck in my cube:
Even without the 5c stuff, Golos fetches important lands, is an artifact and has an ETB. Great card in multiple decks, easy choice.
Kenrith plays nicely in any deck that has White and provides fun politic tools if you want to take advantage of them.
Niv-Mizzet is a huge beater that can draw a ton of cards, but also distorts the draft a little (a lot?). "Stealing" guild cards from players in that color isn't great, but the card quality in individual colors is high enough that it won't train wreck anybody. Maybe it isn't even needed as it steals the thunder from Boros (plus it's not exactly sneaky!).
Finally, in Boros, while Rokiric is narrow (only fits in the 3+ color deck), the removal spells are universally playable. The Red burn spell is a little under the power band sadly, but maybe the flashback makes up for it?
you’re spot on about bring to light, it plain sucks unless you have 4-5 colors for it.
I love Kavu but don’t fault anyone for not running it. Radiant Flames is great as it’s more modal than restrictive. Others here are pretty meh
Bring to Light is in the wrong colors for what I am planning and not sure it has it's place outside of the 4+ color deck.
I know Crawler is good, as I've played it before in my cube, but I would want to support +1/+1 counters before adding it back in.
Draco is an undercosted beater, but narrow in its homes.
Kavu is a great beater that I often consider just on rate, but the wordiness of the card scares me (i.e my drafters won't read it).
Finally Flames is a sweeper which I think I have enough of. I could see it replacing Slagstorm though, but I like that sometimes it gets played to end games.
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Thank you everyone for the input, it really helps unlock information which I may never have gotten access to. Thoughts on this compact 5 color archetype?
/ 5 color sounds fantastic, I want to run that now as well
Just a bit sad that the activation of Kenrith, the Returned King is super boring.
To enable General Ferrous Rokiric more I would be on the lookout for hybrid cards.
That is a great point. What are people's thoughts on the following:
Warrant is a decent removal spell for a more midrange/controlling deck and the Warden half is mediocre.
Depose is pretty easy to turn on in a MP setting as the odds of someone having creatures is high. Fogging a creature is definitely a decent upside early game too. The Deploy portion is actually pretty bad, but instant speed is great and the life can be useful.
Flower could probably replace a land in a deck, but it is so low impact it feels like I am wasting a cube slot.
Expansion should probably be in the cube already tbh, as paying 2 mana to copy almost any spell is likely mana efficient. Explosion can be a nice fireball to close a game.
For the companions, I have a tough time. Jegantha fits the 5 color bill perfectly, but it's another 5 drop for the archetype and is in the wrong colors (though it's a hybrid, so your Boros deck can obviously play it).
Obosh seems more narrow as my list leans more towards 2s, 4s and 6s than 1s, 3s and 5s.
Lutri is just a free card most of the time, but the impact doesn't seem very important. Still probably worth it as it is free.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions so far, it's been great!
Lutri is literally a free card so I'm not sure if it would actually be any fun. I'm tempted to slot it in because I would love to have one fork but it's just...well, a free card. Or well, a fork that costs 6 mana. I don't know, I'm not sure it's a good design.
Lutri is literally a free card so I'm not sure if it would actually be any fun. I'm tempted to slot it in because I would love to have one fork but it's just...well, a free card. Or well, a fork that costs 6 mana. I don't know, I'm not sure it's a good design.
I was thinking about continuing my guild breakdown I started in the first page of this thread, but then I realized it doesn't make much sense. My cube is built around broad themes spanning multiple colors rather than using a guild structure. So here goes.
I have 5 major themes I support:
As well as a couple subthemes:
5 color
Lands
ETB value
There is definitely some overlap between the themes, but I'll try this anyways as a way to lay down my thoughts and see if I can coherently explain my cube. If I can't, that might be a red flag for something not being right!
Spells matter: (part 1)
This theme was greatly helped by Strixhaven at my power level. Adding magecraft cards to both Black and Green has been a boon for allowing the archetype to exist more broadly.
Spells matter is mainly built off of spell velocity. However, depending on the payoff, your deck does wildly different things.
In order for my cube to live up to its name, I chose to include plenty of lower mana-value cantrips/card draw. They help hit land drops, fix colors and find action. They are the backbone of these spells matter decks. I'll be going over my favorite to start that make great use of these cantrips.
Stormless Storm
I love Storm decks, but I don't always enjoy their implementation in cube as they can be isolated with narrow payoffs, enablers and win conditions. So while there aren't any Storm cards, there are ways to win by chaining multiple spells in a turn or over the course of a few turns.
Instead of the Storm mechanic, here are the win conditions I use:
They are generally powerful and playable in decks of their respective colors, but they have the potential to be explosive should you build your deck around them.
After that, you need mana and an engine to make the deck tick.
Fast mana is more limited in my cube as I don't want nutty Storm deck either. That being said, there are mana rocks, Green ramp spells and a few rituals. The best of the bunch being:
I realize that Fastbond and Grim Monolith are very powerful, but I am ok with having a few power outliers as they either come at a cost or you have to build around them.
Monolith is card disadvantage in a 4 player format, which is a heavy price to pay as it is more likely that what you are ramping out gets answered. Fastbond on the other hand, requires some serious deckbuilding for it not to be a dud or a trap.
Now as for engines (or cards), this is where it gets interesting. The three main ones I've found are spell recursion, wheels or lands. There are other engines out there but you have to find them! That is the fun of broad archetypes for me: creating hybrid monstrosities that no one saw coming. A couple examples of each:
Blue is by far the best color as it has cantrips, tutors, powerful engines (like wheels and recursion) and winconditions. Blue does lack mana which is a good reason for it to branch to different colors.
Red can provide decent mana in the form of treasures and is great at filtering your draws. It has some potentrecursion but missed a good win condition (until now? New card in spoiler is spicy!).
Green is a mana factory with rampspells and landfallshenanigans. Enginesexist, but they are all centered around lands, giving Green Storm decks a decidedly different look.
White is almost non-existant in my Storm decks as the color tends to interact more with the board. It lacks cantrips or cheap card draw and the spells are usually removal. That said there are two fantastic cards to splash: Smothering Tithe and Monastery Mentor. In any sort of Wheel deck, Tithe is an absurd amount of mana and Mentor can close out games very fast.
This is basically a "fair" storm deck. You are loaded on cheap cantrips, you have lots of ways to recur the spells that have been cast and there is some interaction to make sure you aren't a complete glass cannon. To me, this is a control deck with an explosive finish.
xnyO by Drawbacks
Another example using a more explosive approach, is this Wheels deck. Cantrips + wheels allow you to find your win condition, while also having interaction and recursion in case things go south. This Izzet version would have benefitted from a Thassa's Oracle or some Black reanimation spells in case The Locust God gets hit. But that's the thing: these decks aren't perfect and can be taken down. But at least you get to go off and enjoy powerful spells.
Izzet Wheels
These decks works very well with Blue as you get a lot of premium card draw/filtering and spells payoffs, but it is possible to forgo Blue altogether.
I struggled to put this deck under the Lands category or the Spells one as it is a hybrid. Land recursion + fetchlands + Korvold/Gitrog/Valakut Awakening make for mean card advantage. Professor Onyx and Life from the Loam or Yawgmoth's Will allow you to gain a lot of Magecraft triggers for the win. Finally the ramp is what allows you to get ahead on board and chain those spells.
Jund land Storm
This last one is a hot mess of all the above combined. You have wheels, recursion and lands and even some bonus artifact synergies. With so many cards being drawn, Thassa's Oracle becomes a legitimate win condition that you can grab back with Regrowth or Yawgmoth's Will if you've milled it. Commit // Memory is a serviceable piece of interaction that can save you should you have milled too much.
So there it is! My take on Storm. Explosive turns that can win big, but are also vulnerable due to the number of win conditions.
I'd love to see Storm decks you've liked from other cubes or hear feedback about this post.
This is a much more straight forward archetype to support than Storm. Whereas in the Storm decks, these cards served more as roadblocks, here they the actual payoffs
White: Possibly the best payoff for this archetype is Monastery Mentor as it helps bridge artifacts and spells as well as getting out of hand really quickly. White also has a bunch of good tokens payoffs, making this archetype fit naturally.
Blue: Blue tokens is usually based off of artifacts more than spells, so it is at best as a support color here. A good one to be sure as the counters, cantrips, bounce and draw are things that are in high demand.
Red: Like White, Red offers nice token support and importantly reach. Burn that hits each opponent plays a big role in the deck's success if boards get stalled. Shout out to Chandra doesn't trigger off of spells, but the fact that she produces tokens and flashes back X spells make her a real asset to the decks.
This deck is the classic example. You have 4 of the payoffs mentioned above combined with cheap cantrips/interaction. A few tokens anthems round out the deck giving it an extra kick. The X spells give the deck a combo finish potential when played with Kykar who can sacrifice tokens for mana.
Green spells token decks don't happen often (which is why I didn't list the color in the title), but they are really cool when they do. Here The spells payoffs are White, but Green complements it well with token making sorceries and noncreature spells. Mentor and Spirit don't care if the spells are instants and sorceries giving more flexibility to build your deck.
I mentioned Blue decks liking artifacts more than spells for tokens, yet here is a hybrid spells/artifacts token deck. Mentor, Saheeli andShark Typhoon bridge the 2 themes allowing you to cast either card type. The importance of cards like Hard Evidence are apparent here as they fit both decks. It looks like an innocuous cantrip, but it helps makes decks cohesive.
There are a lot of decks using hybrid archetypes to create unique decks (RG spell lands, BR spells reanimation, ...), so I won't cover them all.
Scouring through the decks that have been drafted in my cube, I am surprised I wasn't able to find spells matter decks using the GY. I include all of the following:
They tick all the right boxes and both Red and Blue do well in the GY department. It might be that Reveler and Arcanist are relatively recent adds to the cube, but there might be something deeper at work here. Already thinking about these posts is paying off
should be serviceable in your format.